Moving to Poland & Clearing Hurdles | Interview with Dr. Jen Castaneda

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SUMMARY

There are tougher challenges moving to a non-English speaking country but Dr. Jennifer Castañeda, Filipino graduate of basic medical sciences, aced them. She studied medicine in Polish and currently practices as clinical geneticist in Krakow, Poland. She also teaches bioethics. Dr Jen gives tips to overcome the hurdles in the language and dealing with different cultures and mentalities:

1.  Always try to be very open to the differences but not putting so much attention into the differences.

2.  Look for the aspects which unite us like the universal values that we share with people of different cultures. Learn from them.

3.  Keep your own culture, your own tradition in their place. Do not compare.

4.  Avoid being a perfectionist in speaking the new language. Just speak to people even if you know you will commit errors.

5.  Know how and when to ask for help, to admit that you can't perfectly go towards an objective or aim just with yourself.

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TRANSCRIPT

For ease in distinguishing who is saying what, we will place Avic's words in italics.

How difficult is it to study a medical degree in Poland? What would be your biggest challenges? Would language be your biggest hurdle? :et's hear it from the experience of Dr Jennifer Castaneda. She studied medicine there, passed the medical board exam, and is a practicing doctor and a professor in Warsaw, Poland.

Hi Avic, thanks for inviting me over.

Yes, it's been worth the wait. So Jen my first question for you is: how long have you been in Poland?

Well I came to Poland in 1995 so that makes it 27 years. I started medicine in UP Manila with the intermed program and I guess I was a bit of an idealist. I didn't like the way some doctors treated the patients in the hospital I was in. So I said I think I'd stop medicine. I started Masters of Science in genetics in UP but then I was given a proposal if I wanted to help out in the establishment of a center of formation for women in Krakow. And so well I decided to start this adventure of coming over to Poland and when I was asked what kind of studies I would push through, I didn't have any other idea so I said medicine.

I went through an intense Polish program to enter medical studies in Krakow. I started medicine there I finished it and then I did my PhD in another city Szczecin in Poland and then afterwards I actually went back to genetics because I did my specialization in critical genetics here in Warsaw in The Institute of mother and child which is a public pediatric hospital. That's where I'm working right now as a clinical geneticist in our genetic counseling unit.

So what is the beauty of Poland for you looking back in this is 27 years? What is the beauty of Poland for you as a professional and as a person?

I'd probably direct these words to people who would have to go to another place to study or to work. I think what gave me a lot of positive input in this place in Poland is that it is a place that's culturally very close to my own. I like the way that between the Philippines and Poland even if you know the climate is totally different (if I could just show you and perhaps I will be able to show you the snow that's now falling I see through the window) but culture-wise probably because of a very similar history of religion that here the Catholicism is as in the Philippines. It's the religion of the majority here so cultural wise not only religion there is also strong family ties and a strong interpersonal relationships. So I think this is very, very valuable here in Poland. It's like a treasure that I myself was benefiting from.

What would be your biggest hurdle especially in the beginnings?

You're asking about a big hurdle when you transfer to a different country and you know that you're gonna stay there for a lot of years. aside from the challenges of the language I think it's the confrontation with sometimes different mentalities which could be in contrast with what you were used to before and I think how at least I managed with that is that I was always trying to be at least very open to the differences but not putting so much attention into the differences. I think what helps is to look for the aspects which unite us like the universal values that we share with people of different cultures and not to put so much attention into the differences, to be open to the values which you know you could even learn from them.

But I also think it's very important to keep your own culture, your own tradition in their place- not to compare. I just learned later on not to say "oh we did it in a different way in my country." Adapt yourself to how the people live in this place because in the same way that you're learning from others actually you are enriching them with your own traditions, your own customs, and and your own ways of thinking.

Did you have classmates from other non-eEuropean countries?

Well in Poland actually because of the history of Communism, there were a lot of people from post-Communist countries. In my case I was the only Filipino in my batch. As Asian I think I was the only one. I had friends from Ukraine, Latvia, mostly neighboring countries.

there are some medical programs in English here so it's a paid English program. I was lucky enough to get into the Polish program but the challenge is that everything was in Polish. But then there's still free education here ,free University education so that was of course of utmost benefit that I didn't have to pay for my medical studies.

And actually medicine here in Poland is in quite a good level- a lot of very good professionals. Perhaps it doesn't have the modern Innovations, technological innovations, not all of them like in the United States or probably in the UK. But there are a lot of a spirit of entrepreneurship and so I would say even in genetics that some diagnostic methods in genetics which are now very much in use in other Western countries are beginning to be used in Poland.

Can you describe to us your experience about the language?

What you are thinking about learning a language is totally different from your own because I remember when I was already planning to go to Poland and someone gave me a text of a Polish newspaper I couldn't even pronounce the words because there are so many consonants in the word, you know there are a lot of s z dz together in the Polish language. "Y" is like a vowel. If you think of it as a consonant, you couldn't read the words.

But anyway what I was thinking in general I think what helped me was not to be such a perfectionist because I know of some people who would only speak the language if they knew that they had it in a perfect state, I mean that they wouldn't commit errors. And I think that's a very erroneous way of trying to learn a language in a country where you know that you will live for for many more years. So I think what helped me was actually I was advised to do that: just to go ahead, just to speak with people, even if you know that you'll make some errors.

I had a lot of friends who were very very patient with me that when there was a word in the lecture in Biochemistry that I didn't understand I always had my friend beside me always explaining to me. So do not to get frustrated that you don't grammatically speak so well in the beginning. The other thing is that learning a language takes a lot of energy from the neurons what also helped me is that to take some breaks I mean to sometimes read something in English or talk to someone in English so that then the neurons don't get so exhausted. Someone was saying that you already know you're speaking fluently or at least this language is a bit more in your nature when you start dreaming in this language or when you start counting in this language spontaneously. And I think that's just really what happened.

It's good that you talked about not being a perfectionist. What is the difference between striving for perfection and perfectionism?

That's a very difficult question you posed to me but when I think about it and I thought about it a lot recently also because (I forgot to tell you that but I was very much interested in bioethics and so apart from clinical genetics I actually did some training in bioethics and now I'm in a master program in global bioethics) I do organize some bioethics seminars for students. And so talking a lot with young people then you see that there's a tendency towards perfectionism in the way even the educational process is being led, like in the universities or even in school. So the difference between striving for perfection and perfectionism when I think about it (well I wouldn't say I'm a I'm an expert on the field) is I think striving for perfection includes in the process some stages of failures. A person who's not a perfectionist would take advantage of these little or big failures to move towards the aim, without getting frustrated. The idea here is to treat these failures as a challenge to actually change something in the process or to grow in some other, I don't know in virtues, in some values but keeping the aim in mind.

So a perfectionist I think what happens that's why there's some kind of frustration is that they don't know how to manage these stages of failures or imperfections which have to be accepted as I think part of the process towards achieving an aim. One good thing is that to know how to ask for help actually, to admit that we can't perfectly go towards an objective just with ourselves and so to know how to ask for help and to appreciate the help that you are being given and the support that comes from the environmen-t friends family.

Could you give us a little explanation for dummies of what is genetics and what is bioethics?

I'm so lucky. Actually I consider myself a very lucky person that I'm into these fields which are I would say they're very specific in the sense that not everyone likes genetics. For instance clinical genetics as a field of medicine deals with very rare diseases, genetic diseases so there's a lot of going to the molecules. Here I mean the genetic basis of diseases which now actually includes the  various  other fields of specialization because there's genetics in pediatrics, in neonatology, in gynecology, and OB gyne. There's genetics in dermatology and oncology and all that. And the thing is that really when you diagnose genetic diseases, it's not the type that you can say "okay I have diagnosed this disease and I can cure you." In the case of genetics they are usually rare incurable diseases but it's a different kind of support that geneticists give to families in which genetic diseases are diagnosed. I would say it's more support like giving more much more information on this rare disease which is very difficult to know so much about it because other other doctors would  know less probably because they're very rare. The kind of psychological support or to give them more information on what could be the surveillance in the case of a child with a genetic disease so it's difficult to cure, quite impossible in most genetic diseases but you can care for someone in a different way.

Bioethics is actually a field which is of course not only tied to genetics but to all different fields of biological sciences. Bioethics is keeping the person, the good of the person in mind. Bioethics is a part of philosophy and I think when one is involved in such a very molecular field like genetics, bioethics gives the professional a wider perspective because it makes you go from the molecules to the person, the person himself. Or bioethics deals with the ethical aspects of biological sciences and I would say that in genetics there's a lot of it -how you use the genetic technology, how you diagnose for instance fetuses during the prenatal period so there's a lot of different areas actually.

When you said from molecules to person I totally understand it now ,very simple for dummies really. So there are only four more minutes and Dr Jen has to go to another appointment so my last question would be: if there are some professionals who are moving to another country for professional development for graduate studies like what you have experienced, what would be your top three advices for them?

First, to keep the aim in mind: why we're going to another place. I think to keep this objective in mind helps us to go through the process of the hurdles, to the difficulties in order to reach the aim. t the same time, accept that there will be some difficulties, to accept that that's part of the process and to admit it to people and to take advantage and be thankful for the support that other people can give.

The second is to be very open to the differences in culture, customs, traditions, and to try to see what is very positive in these differences that we see.

And the third is probably to take care of oneself you know, a very hygienic way of life, that means to know how to rest, to know how to take care of friendships, of interpersonal relationships, to be in touch with one's family so I think that's what I would say.

Avic, thanks so much for for the interview and it was wonderful to be chatting with you on this Sunday evening there, morning here. Anyway have a very blessed Christmas to all of you.